Friday, July 3, 2009

Unemployment and Debt

Well, despite all the media hype about how President Obama was going to pull us out of the recession, more people are still losing their jobs. The unemployment rate climbed to 9.5 this past month, and where oh where has all the money gone?!

Well, let's see...billions to foreign aid. Billions to welfare. Trillions to our crummy public education system. And the Fed continues to print more Monopoly money, so be assured that the weekly 'Free Parking' truck will be around quite soon!

Now, perhaps I'm being unfair. But I don't think so. The government seems to think that the only way to achieve prosperity (a rather shallow goal, at the best of times), is to get in debt. We have a President who apparently worships debt, hailing it as the end-all to economic success.

Somebody needs to hit them all upside the head with a great big dose of reality.

Debt doesn't bring prosperity. The only thing it brings is 'Stupid tax' as Dave Ramsey phrases it. America is paying a lot of stupid tax. Or, they would be, if the government was actually trying to pay off their debt instead of let it fester and accrue interest...and be there so China can own us in a few years.

Debt does not equal economic success. Like I said, it only brings with it more spending. If my family had not bought a house that was too expensive, and hadn't bought so much stuff on credit, we would be comparatively well off right now. Yeah, we might not be living in the best neighborhood, but we wouldn't have to worry about where food was coming from next week.

A lot of families are in that fix. Why? Because they've gotten themselves into debt.

Now, back to our original topic.

Why is 'creating jobs' the end-all? It isn't the government's job to create jobs. It never has been, and it won't be. Ever. But, somebody needs to tell that to our Smart and Smarter legislators in Washington. Oh, and to our President. (Somebody also needs to tell him lots of other things, but that's another post.)

I truly think that if the government would back off and let the economy run it's course, we'd see an improvement. The people who run these businesses know what they're doing. They're trying to make money. Having to kow-tow to the government doesn't make them money. Firing or laying off people doesn't make them money.

Neither do unemployment taxes, or social security taxes, or any of the other dumb taxes they have to pay to the government. It isn't profitable to run their businesses. So, they'd be pretty silly if they stayed in a business that wasn't making them money.

The government needs to back off already. Seriously.


Christopher said...

Liberty, I've said this to so many people that all my friends are sick of it. But I'm going to say it again. Can't you respect our government? I DEFINITELY understand disagreeing, but calling them names? I don't really have reason to say this, but it's hard running the country. Could you do better?

I'm going to stick with what I said before. This debt will end. Call me a worthless optimist, but the Great Depression was a huge economic disaster and it ended. This recession may get worse than the Great Depression but it will end. Nothing like that lasts forever. Also, one of the most helpful ways to stop it will be to open new jobs. Companies aren't going to want to offer new jobs because they care for the benefit of themselves, not of the economy. So it is the government's duty to open to jobs. It's not Obama's fault that jobs are being lost, it's the fault of the companies--not that I blame them. I might do the same. And we have to send billions to the education system. How else will the future generation know how to fix our problems?

Personally, I'm not hoping that the government will back off. I'm hoping that they're good enough to fix our problems. If all the government protects is law, America would sink down past all the progress it has achieved in the past century. On a less vicious note, happy post-4th of July! I just celebrated it with an entire day in the car, heading back from Texas to Georgia.

Liberty said...

I don't see where I called them names, unless you're referring to my sarcastic comment about our 'Smart and Smarter legislators'. Personally, I think they deserve to be called some worse stuff (such as 'dirty, rotten, thieving, lying creeps'), but that's just me. They're stealing from the American people, putting it under the guise of helping us, then acting as if they deserve to be reelected. With very few exceptions, they are nothing but crooks. Do I think it is difficult to run the country? Most assuredly. But, let's face it. Even the Founding Fathers said some pretty nasty stuff about each other, like Jefferson and Hamilton, and Jefferson and Adams. Pretty...virulent.

Now then. ;)

I don't see how debt will 'end'. Debt doesn't 'end'. If it does, I'm pretty sure my parents are waiting for the day our mortgage and car payment will suddenly just disappear, with absolutely no effort on our part!

I mean, let's think about this. If you get a credit card, and put say, $10,000 on it. You're in a fix. But let's say you aren't making payments on it, just like our government. Guess what? You can hope and pray all you want to for that debt to 'go away', but it isn't going to. You can wait for three trillion years, and it won't. And eventually, the credit card company is going to come after you for their money.

That is the same thing our government is doing. They seem to think they can get us into a mountain of debt, and there will be absolutely no consequences. We are currently in over $11,000,000,000,000 in debt. Yes, that's a lot of zeros. Yes, that's a lot more money than I think either you or I could ever DREAM of seeing.

The debt will not just 'end.' It is in no way comparable to the Great Depression. The Depression wasn't about debt. This is about debt. We are not going to become more prosperous if we accrue more and more debt. I can guarantee you it will not.

Now, about the businesses. They HAVE to care about the economy. Because, guess what? Without a good economy, they WON'T MAKE MONEY. You said yourself that's the point of it. The fault of the recession rests on the shoulders of the Fed and their cronies, of which Obama is one. They have driven our dollar into the toilet, and keep printing more money that is backed by nothing more than the imaginations of our politicians!

Education. Let's face it. The education in this country is, well, crappy. Half of the kids my age can't even read properly- and don't like to! They were all educated in the public school system. Pretty sad. We keep throwing billions at a problem that isn't being fixed, and more money won't solve it. (If more money solves every problem, then send some to my iPod. It's disabled and won't come back on.)

I too hope and pray that the government will be able to fix this the right way. But I don't think America will sink back to pre-industrial era levels if the government stops messing in everything but law. THAT'S ITS JOB. The economy is not its job.

You know Christopher, I have a request to make of you. If you haven't recently, go read the Constitution. Pay really close attention to the part about 'powers.' I think it is the duty of every American citizen to read it. And even if you don't agree with me after that, at least I know you know what it says. ;)

Happy 4th! (a little late, but so what?) We didn't do much but go bowling and then go watch fireworks. It was pretty fun! :)

Christopher said...

Well, at least you got to watch fireworks. Fireworks are illegal within the city limits in Atlanta. On a less cheerful note, I really hope you'll be more respectful to those who are trying hard to guide our country. If evil tyrants or dictators ruled America, I would understand. But do those goodhearted people--yes, goodhearted--who are trying hard to lead their country deserve to be ridiculed just because their methods MIGHT be insufficient? I also see a tiny bit of fault in blaming Obama for all the economic problems. Because he is a semi-new president. Bush was the president at the time that the economy was really bad and getting worse. So please don't blame him because of who he is. And I'll try to be respectful to whichever candidate you supported.

Yes, obviously an individual's debt will not automatically end. Was I talking about an individual? No, I was talking about the debt of an entire country. Did I say debt will end in a year or just like that? No, I said it would end. "End" meaning it will very gradually shrink. Not go away. Shrink. I'm still trying to understand how you think America's problems will last forever. Why I was addressing the Great Depression was because it was also an economic crisis. If you look at financial problems in any civilized country in history, you will not find one that has lasted for hundreds of years.

Yes, the public school system is disappointing--overall, not completely. I've never been to public school so I can't really say. But I can say that you can't blame the government so quickly. I thought you said they should only protect law? Well, then. You shouldn't blame them. There just isn't enough money. And if you complain about taxes, you can't complain about the public school system. What do you suggest they do? Same thing with jobs. Why are you blaming the government if you say they shouldn't interfere? Again, what do you suggest?

You might be able to correct me, but you seem to be contradicting yourself. First you say the government shouldn't interfere, then you say you want them to fix it the right way. I'm not trying to use your mistakes as an attack. I'm trying to clarify.

Lastly, no I haven't read the Constituion. And you're right. I should. I suppose it really is my duty. Do you have any suggestions to where I can read it? Happy 6th of July!

Liberty said...

Illegal? Man, that stinks...well, you're always welcome to drop by the Texas Panhandle and see ours...we usually have a pretty good show. ;)

I try not to ridicule them. Yes, sometimes I poke fun at them. But when I call them liars, I firmly believe that's the truth. When I call them thieves, that's the truth to. They're stealing my future, and then lying about it. I don't doubt that they're trying hard, and maybe some f them don't even realize they're doing it, but they are, and somebody needs to wake them up before it's too late.

I still don't see how debt will 'shrink' anymore than it will, without any effort, simply end. Debt does not shrink, gradually or no, without it being paid on. Are we paying on ours? No. And we CANNOT pay on it if we are spending more than we make, in taxes are otherwise.

I am sorry for the confusion, it appears that I have been being a bit confusing. XD

On the school system- they did this. They instituted the schools, and have since been trying to make them more 'equal' and the like, yet the education (if we can call it that) is getting progressively worse. THAT is the government's fault, because they have been trying to take care of it. My plan for the education system is to phase it out over a maximum of three years, reducing the funding every 6 months. The funds we are saving would partly go towards retraining the individuals who currently work in the department of education so that they can go out into the workforce, or to the new localized departments. We would switch all education/school management to localities. I think this would work better because A) localities know better what people in their community need. Cities already have school boards, those boards only have to take on more responsibility. So, the local government would be taking care of education.

BTW, my whole point about them throwing money at it was that the money we ARE sending ISN'T DOING ANY GOOD. Our inner city schools aren't improving, literacy rates aren't going up, and our kids are dumber now than they ever have been, quite conceivably.

I think the government should go back to what it's supposed to do- back off of the economy. It will correct itself, if they just leave it alone. The people who run those businesses aren't dumb- they know what to do. Oh, and while we're at it, reduce the Federal Reserve to a nonentity. They're really the ones at fault here. the entire constitution is on this site. Enjoy. ;)

veronica elise said...

I totally agree with liberty. This debt is not going away. Yes, it is possible that it could gradually go away, but right now it doesn't look that way. The government is spending trillions of dollars and is making no attempt to be frugal and pay off the debt.
Our country is not headed in a good direction, people are outraged when they discover that you don't support gay rights, that you believe abortion is murder, and therefore a sin that leads to death. This country is straying dangerously far from God, and without God, there is no hope.
If our leaders were God fearing (Obama claims to be, but his morals in no way demonstrate any faith) then I wouldn't hold the position that I do. I would trust the government to make the right choices. But I don't, and I do pray that they will.

As for what Christopher said, yes, we do need to show some respect for our government, but there is no need to condone such behavior. In doing so we are also guilty of their foolishness and wastefulness.

On a different note, I feel as if everyone is a bit harsh on pubic schools. Mabe where you come from, they are really bad, but where I am, they are really good. Classes are rigorous and very informative. My school is also really competetive. After getting one B+, I dropped from being placed one in my class to 90 in my class.

But, also on a different note, I do not no where the government got their brains from. Throwing trillions of dollars at healthcare and education isn't going to reduce unemployment and bring prosperity to our nation.

Also, we have a market economy, not a socialist one. That means extremely minimal government intervention.

Christopher said...

I can see that my opinions aren't exactly welcome on this blog. I'm not going to debate about those anymore, just maybe clarify something about what I think.

I agree with you, Veronica, that we are being harsh and general about public schools. Some are better than many private schools. I know some that are loads better than some other private schools I know. And the kid inside the school is most important. But the point that I am trying to make is that city schools especially have too many kids and not enough funding. And, while I go to a private school myself, I think it's sad that some kids my age have inadequate teachers, are barely literate, and have to share a class with up to 21 other kids while many private schools offer the most up-to-date education and other stuff like that. That's all. And, Liberty, I sort of agree. Maybe schools would be better if they were localized. They should have to be approved by the government. But it might actually be better. But they also might be even poorer than many now.

To clarify, I never did say that debt will disappear. And I never said that debt will shrink by itself. Of course it won't. But as generations pass, jobs open, etc., it will EVENTUALLY be paid off.

I am also confused how Obama has shown to have bad morals. Even if he was an inadequate leader, which I don't think he is, it's clear that he wants the best for America. Opinions aren't as important as people say they are. I DEFINITELY understand disagreeing, as I've nagged so many times before, but please don't say things like that just because you disagree. Close-mindedness is the real danger to American thought.

Lastly, just because you have different opinions does not mean one is straying from God. Opinions are far too easily planted in the mind, but they almost never damage character or morale, which are the most important. I don't think it's good to be angry when someone disagrees with gay marriage or abortion, but I also don't think it's good to be angry when someone believes vice versa. God caring about one's opinions is basically like caring about one's nationality--which he doesn', I guess that's it again. See you!

P.S. (Are you allowed to have these on comments?) I have not read all of it, but I did read some of the Constitution. And it was enlightening.)

veronica elise said...

First of all, I completely welcome your opinions. I may not entirely agree with you, but I cannot deny that I have enjoyed reading your comments. It helps me see where other people are coming from.

I do agree that Obama is only doing what he thinks best. Also, some opinions do not matter that much, but others do. I hate to focus soley on the two issues I brought up before, but I believe that they are perfect examples of what I am trying to say. (abortion and homosexuality)

I guess I was a bit unclear when I said that Obama has bad morals. I suppose you are entirely correct when you say that Obama does not have bad morals. What I was trying to get at, though, was that Obama does not oppose abortion or homosexuality. As I mentioned in my previous comment, in Obamas support of these to things, he becomes almost guilty of them himself. Also, I hope that we can both agree that murder and sexual immorality are, in fact, immoral. The bible clearly states that these are two of the many sins that lead to death, and are therefore detestable in God's sight.

So, that is why I do believe that some opinions really do matter. Also, you stated that opinions rarely effect morals or character. Though there are many casses in which this is true, the oppisite is in no way a rarity. I have a very good example to show you, but it in no way relates to government. sorry:)

I carry the possition that once you are first saved you are not necesarily always saved. I believe that you must live a life glorifying of him and walking as he did. Others believe that once you are first saved you are always saved, regardless of how you live the rest of your life. Granted this is in no way true for everybody, many of the people I know who hold this position are leading imoral lives. This is because they do not beleive that their actions will effect their salvation.

Also, I do not think it fair to equate opinions to nationalilty. Obviously God doesn't care about nationality, and he sure doesn't care about many opinions. If you support murdering innocent gifts from God, though, I think God is going to have something to say about that on judgment day. It is those type of oppinions that God most definitely cares about.

So, I don't mean to rant too much, but I do not wish to leave my opinions unheard. Also, I want to clarify that I am in no way trying to bash the government or even you, though it may seem so. I merely want to make my opinions clear:)

Christopher said...

I think I might write a post on abortion or gay marriage. But I appreciate that you responded kindly. My right wing aunts, uncles, and cousins in Texas would be furious enough to beat me at some points. Maybe that's exxageration, but you get my point. And I always a person who can discuss their opinions and listen as well as talk.

And I know what you're saying about opinions tainting character. May some opinions can a bit. But opinions are so easily planted in the mind. It just doesn't seem fair. I think that's all I'm going to say. I've already expressed my views on unemployment and debt. I'm looking forward to your next post, Liberty.

Liberty said...

Christopher please don't stop commenting!! I love listening to your opinions on things! :P

Christopher said...

Oh, no. Sorry if it sounded that way. No, I like this blog. I was just saying that we weren't really progressing in the discussion. No, I think I'll keep following your blog if that's alright. Sometimes I don't really articulate well.

Liberty said...

Veronica- there is an excellent book called Thy Kingdom Come. It is written by a liberal, and is biased accordingly, and a couple of the chapters I absolutely disagree with, but he has some good things to say about abortion. That is my stance completely.

Let me just sort of paraphrase and condense what he said.

Abortion is terrible and immoral. It is in no way redeemable- at all. However, the federal government can do absolutely nothing about it. In the end, it is a moral issue, not a governmental one. If you wish it to stop, you must evangelize. That is the only way.

Sorry if this is a bit OT- I'm going to try to find something to post about today so we can discuss something else, LOL

choco38 said...

Hi Liberty

Once again I have to challenge some of your statements. You complain that Obama's stimulus has not worked. He has only been in office less than 200 days and only 10% of the stimulus money has been spent. Some people just can't wait to complain and attack Obama - these are mostly people who don't want him to succeed. Unemployment is known to be a "lagging indicator" in a recession. It will be the last thing to improve. Obama has repeatedly said that he does not expect results from the stimulus until the end of 2009, with unemployment numbers getting better in 2010. So complaints about the stimulus failing are disengenous and partisan.

As far as debt - I don't like it. During the Clinton Administration we came close to paying off the National Debt, then came Bush and 9-11 and Iraq. It can be done. As far as the government creating jobs - World War II was probably one of the biggest government stimulus programs we've seen. Still coming out of the Great Depression it gave unemployed men jobs in the military, a boost to the economy thru gov contracts for weapons and combat support systems. Even conservatives will tell you that war is a great stimulus to the economy. But they don't like to admit that you can stimulate the economy without war [or tax cuts].

I know you would like to have a government that does none of these things and provides few services, but you're in the minority. Have you considered where we would be if Obama allowed us to go into a full blown recession, cut taxes and eliminated most government programs? First you would add a large number of gov workers to the unemployment lines. You would have a very slow recovery. The unemployed would have no food stamps, welfare or other assistance. Hospitals could turn away poor patients and let them die. This isn't my idea of a civilized country. We went through all this 80 years ago and have made a lot of changes to insure it doesn't happen again.

Jack [you can call me Democracy]

Liberty said...

Jack- thanks for stopping by again!

I am fairly certain President Obama's stimulus will not work. Do I hope it will? Yes. But I do not think it will. One cannot spend one's way out of a recession. I am not an economist, but I am fairly certain that, were the government to back off and get it's hands off the lives of individual citizens and businesses, we would see an increase in the economic value of this country.

Oh yes, war is an excellent stimulus, as well as an excellent job creator! Of course, we have that all covered, what with President Obama sending more troops in Afghanistan!

I may be in the minority nowadays, but I have history behind me. The Founding Fathers never envisioned such a mammoth federal government as we have today. I firmly believe that my view is a Constitutional one, based on multiple readings on the subject- as well as a pretty good idea of what I should and should not be allowed to do.

I propose a slow phasing-out of those programs, not an instant cutting of them. There are ALWAYS jobs to be had. Yes, perhaps not jobs in the government, but there will always be jobs. Our local grocery store is always hiring. My dad needs workers. Every plumber in our city needs workers.

I think such a society as we would then have would be BETTER. People survived for almost 150 years without things like food stamps. If they didn't have money, they went and got a job. I am not advocating hospitals turning away patients- which they don't- or letting the poor starve- which they wouldn't. I think you would be surprised by how ardently local organizations like churches and charities would step up to the plate. I know that when my family was going through a tough time, we didn't go get on food stamps. We didn't complain- my dad just worked harder. But the associate pastor of our church came by and brought two big boxes of food by, enough to last us for weeks. Not long after, a friend was moving and gave us the contents of her pantry and refigerator. We didn't starve. In the same way, each of us have been provided with a 'safety net'- our family, friends, church, and neighborhood.

I guess my biggest contention with social programs like this is that there is a mistaken idea that we 'have' to have them. People CAN'T make it on their own, they CAN'T make enough money to support themselves, they CAN'T go to college on their own. Doesn't that seem degrading to you?! It's one of the primary reasons I would sooner work my way through college than accept government help. (or get in debt...)

Sometimes, I think the politicians think we're dumb. Which they probably do.

Kendra Logan said...

Well, I came in quite late and I only skimmed the comments, but I do have a couple of things to say:

Christopher is right. We should not make fun of, belittle, etc. our government. I disagree with Obama on almost every fundamental issue, but I still hope and pray that he can be a good president. If we don't stand by our country's leaders, what are we then? Our name says it all: the United States. For things to get any better, we have to stay united, between states, and between the people and government.

I also agree with Liberty. The debt won't go away by itself, but it won't go away with our feeble attempts to pay it off either. We're already spending money that we don't have. The interest on our debt alone will swallow us up before long.

Keep posting, Liberty! I love this kind of stuff :) That's why I started Carpe Noctem.


Kendra Logan said...

Hi! Sorry to leave a comment like this, but I thought you might be interested in this.

On Saturday September 26th there is going to be a special edition of Carpe Noctem ( "Followers Say..." You will be granted access to posting on Carpe Noctem from midnight on the 25, to 11:59pm on the 26.

Sound like something you or someone you know might enjoy? Go here ( to read the details! I really hope you decide to do this! The more people we have involved, the more fun it will be! Please do it if it sounds like something you'd enjoy, and tell your friends! Thanks!