Tuesday, September 1, 2009

'Home Visits'- for Vaccines

Title III, subtitle C of the Senate healthcare reform bill summary talks about immunizations. And this is what it says.

Immunizations: Under this program, CDC will provide grants to states to improve immunization coverage of children, adolescents, and adults through the use of evidence-based interventions. States may use funds to implement interventions that are recommended by the Community Preventive Services Task Force, such as reminders or recalls for patients or providers, or home visits. Reauthorizes the Immunization Program in Section 317 of the Public Health Service Act. [§ 324]


So, what exactly will these 'home visits' consist of? Pressuring people to 'improve coverage' of their children by pumping yet more harmful chemicals into their little bodies?

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Kendra Logan said...

I can understand why you don't approve of lots of vaccines, but it's not like the government is trying to poison our kids. Cut them some slack; they're doing what they think is a good idea.

Of course, I still think the whole healthcare reform thing is total crap, lol!

Christopher said...

I don't agree with it, but I can imagine the perspective of someone who thinks the government is doing rubbish right now.

But I've never been able to imagine the perspective of people who think the government is purposefully trying to damage society--people who think Obama is the Antichrist and so on. The government is trying to help America. Also, I wasn't really aware that vaccines were harmful. I was pretty sure they were proven to help people.

Liberty said...

My mom could tell you a lot more about this subject than I can. But vaccines are full of mercury and other harmful chemicals. Not to mention the fact that about half of them don't even prevent what they're supposed to!

More than that, forced vaccination is not right. That's basically saying "Oh, well, you can't do such-and-such because we're just here to help, and what you're doing is wrong." Thanks, but no thanks.

Alex Floyd said...

Soem vaccinations can be harmful to certain people, but that;s only a selct number of people and vaccines. I believe that the vaccines they are tlaking about are ones that are necessary and not harmful, like flu shots. They already have requiered vaccinations in order to attend school. Look at something like the current swine flu pandemic. A lot of people are going to try to refuse to get a vaccine. Not only will they then be putting themselves at risk, they will be putting otheres at risk as well. This is a situation where the government needs to step in and say you need this vaccination, or your kids can't attend schools.

Liberty said...

The flu vaccines only actually treat three kinds of influenza. That, out of hundreds. I don't see how that's protecting us from flu. (Besides, what a lot of people think 'flu' is, isn't really 'flu' at all.)

Oh yes, the evil swine flu PANDEMIC! Where...only 3,000 people have died....and only 500 here...do you know what a pandemic is Alex? According to what a pandemic is, I'd say the regular flu is a pandemic- 30,000 people die each year. With the regular flu, when we have a 'pandemic' of it, MILLIONS die, not thousands. I think they're trying to distract us from real issues, eh?

I don't want the government getting into my health business, thank you very much. If you want your kids/siblings vaxed, go ahead.

If they are, won't my unvaxed siblings not hurt your kids since your kids are vaxed?

Joyful_Momma said...

If vaccines are not harmful, why did Big Pharma push for legislation to keep the manufacturers safe from litigation? Why are those that are financially profitting from vaccines allowed to participate in the discussion of what vaccines should be mandated? If vaccines are not harmful why is there a government organization whose sole purpose is to settle money on those who have been injured by them? There is also an adverse effect reporting system.

This is a good place to start.

Why if manufactured homes are required to have warning labels that say formaldehyde was used in it's production are vaccines not required to have the same warning attached? (List of vaccine additives)

CDC admitted that vaccines cause autism.

Case where a court acknowledged and awarded a child damages for vaccine injury

Diseases that vaccination takes credit for eradicating were actually declining long before immunization was introduced.

I could go on and on. I have a three inch binder full of information on how harmful vaccines are.

I have chosen not to vaccinate my kids (unfortunately Liberty was vaccinated before I began to research the subject). I also acknowledge that every parent should be allowed to make the choice they believe is best. I also don't believe it should be mandated by the government.

Remember your history book? That part about the "Final Solution" that was supposed to be for the good of the whole as well!

Joyful_Momma said...

Also- if you're using the popup, you may want to copy-past the links to your browser. ;)

Joyful_Momma said...

And Liberty, just found this gem..."Death rate extrapolations for USA for Flu: 63,729 per year, 5,310 per month, 1,225 per week, 174 per day, 7 per hour" kind of puts a new perspective on the H1N1 "pandemic"!!

CarolineNot said...

In 2009, imagination isn't necessary, for verifiable facts abound in every form (audio, video, Congressional Record, printed documents, quotations, et al) and are easily accessed by those willing to read and study.

Like Joyful Momma, our family needed a wake-up call 25 years ago, which was too late for our first two children; one now lives with an auto-immune disease. And while we've also long known not to subject ourselves to flu shots (and the adjuvants used in them), my husband's parents faithfully and annually received their flu shots in the '70s and '80s. I cared for my mother-in-law the final six years of her 15-year experience with Alzheimer's disease, and while the Mayo Clinic -- without citing a single study -- has recently and flatly denied any link between flu shots and increased incidence of AD, some studies have produced evidence quite in opposition to Mayo's unsubstantiated statements. Ignorance or lies are somewhere in that mix, and I personally resent that.

The Village needn't nanny us or our children. They're neither wanted nor needed by us in that capacity. Our choice in the matter of how we shall live, though, is nearly extinguished. I am 56 years old and lived in a U.S.A. my children have never experienced; I have told them what it was like. Even their country is becoming unrecognizable to them now.

Perhaps young people educated in the government schools, through no fault of their own, don't even know where or how to find the truth. On the vaccine topic, Joyful Momma has, indeed, provided a place to begin. Conspiracy [noun - real word - in the dictionary - historically fitted to peoples and events] needn't enter the equation, if that makes one nervous. Facts are facts -- historical and contemporary.

Alex Floyd said...

The swine flu is a pandemic. A pandemic is not based on how many people die, it's based on how many are infected and where. The difference about swine flu is that it kills people who are otherwise mostly healthy and are not in the two hightest risk groups. The two highest risks groups for the regular flu are infants and persons over the age of 75. This flu kills people like teengers, 20 or 30 year olds, people who are not usually bothe3red by things like this. And the CDC is actually more worried than they're letting on. Several people we know that are connected to the CDC have said they have briefs throughout the day beginning at 6 AM. They also have plans to close schools, quaratine by county, and other measures that look very rash to us. But it's still a danger. I'm very interested in diseases like this, so I have been follwing it since it has first discovered in a small village in Mexico near an industrial pig farm. Also, I live in Atlanta so we get very up to date information about this.

Liberty said...

Where are you getting your sources about the age groups that are being infected? According to the CDC website, teenagers and young children are the most susceptible. I think a large part of the fact that seniors aren't as likely to get it is that they've had it before (in one of the other numerous swine flu 'epidemics'), and their bodies know how to deal with it.

And .0004% of the population does not count as a 'pandemic', no matter how you look at it. A pandemic is defined as "existing everywhere, epidemic over a wide geographical area" An epidemic is defined as "a widespread outbreak of an infectious disease"

Only 301,894 cases have been confirmed. There are over 7 billion people in the world. That is .0004% of the total population of the world. Hardly a large portion of the population- and far from what is needed even for an epidemic. In the last pandemic we had, the flu epidemic of 1918, 33% of the world's population became infected, and 3-6% of the population died. It is currently estimated that 50-100 million died, and that 25 million died in just the first 25 weeks! Sorry, but I don't think H1N1 is coming even CLOSE, statistic-wise, to our last pandemic, which just tells me it isn't really a pandemic. ( Source)

And Alex, I live in Texas. There have been 28 deaths, and 5,219 confimed cases. Georgia has had 178 cases, 4 deaths. I live much closer to the original source than you do, and we've had more people die. Of course, people in China could get the information just as easily as I, regardless.

Joyful_Momma said...

Liberty, there's an extra 0 in the percentage of populatioin that has been infected, it should say .004%...not that it makes much difference! LOL

Alex, the definition of pandemic (according to the free online dictionary): Medicine Epidemic over a wide geographic area and affecting a large proportion of the population.

Don't know about you but .004% is not what I would consider a 'large portion'.

Christopher said...

Yes yes, that's what I thought. I didn't think at all that swine flu would be an issue in America. We're a first-world country. We have excellent doctors, (especially in the--proud smile--CDC in Atlanta.) But already two kids at my school have been infected with swine flu. That's two kids in one private school. Many more than 3,000 Americans have been infected.

And I think I might have to side with Alex on this one. Vaccines are harmful to a few select amount of people, and only a select few vaccines cause those problems. Unfortunately, forced vaccine intake is sometimes necessary--for Americans stubborn enough to refuse "that poison" and go around infecting others.

Kendra Logan said...

I am siding with Alex and Christopher.

While the swine flu outbreak may not be as severe as other things, even the regular flu, it *IS* a pandemic, by definition. I do not even go to a public school and I--personally--know six people who have been infected with the swine flu.

I think that in some cases, vaccines should be mandatory, but not in other cases. Since it's difficult to draw the line, though, I can understand why our government is handling this the way they are.

Liberty said...

Maybe I'm just being a stubborn Constitutionalist. But I have the right to refuse vaccines for myself and/or my children, period. If you and your children are vaxed, you should have no problem.

And Christopher, did you even read the links my mother posted? It's excellent information, and well worth the read. I assure you, your stance on them will change when you find out what they've been pumping into your body.

This isn't about 'stubborness.' This isn't about 'ignorance.' This isn't about wanting to infect everyone else with my evil germs. This is about my rights.

And Christopher, the CDC says that 8,843 people have been hospitalized for H1N1. That out of some 300 million. Only 500 people have died of it. (That includes our territories as well.) Still doesn't sound quite that serious to me.

Kendra- I'd like to know why, after the statistics I presented, H1N1 still qualifies as a 'pandemic'. It might qualify as an epidemic, but not its scarier-sounding cousin.

Alex Floyd said...

You are using the dictonary definition of a pandemic. That is not the real definition. The CDC and WHO definitions are a disease that has spread to at least three or more regions and has at least 1000 persons infected. The WHO says swine flu is in a phase 6 which is a pandemic. Might I ask, who should I believe, you or an international organization that is dedicated to the world's health? Plus, you get your facts from websites and your mom. I get mine from websites, newspapers, books, and people who are working in the headquarters of our nation's health!

Joyful_Momma said...

Alex, You are so off base. Liberty, reads books A LOT!! More than you I'd dare say. She has studied history and cultures since she was 7 at least! And I don't mean she was reading kiddie books. By 10 she never even bothered to go to the kids' section at the library, where we go at least twice a month. She subscribes to at least 4 major news sources. And she also knows how to get to the CDC's website.

I am disgusted with you, just absolutely disgusted.

Just because government agencies say it is a pandemic doesn't make it so. Sorry, but I believe the dictionary is the final authority for what a word means, not some agency that has a vested interest in scaring the world.

I can say that a 'cold' is actually pnuemonia but that doesn't make it so. It would just mean I was trying to make things sound worse than they really are. Scare tactice to gain power and that is all.




There's a few links for you to check out

Joyful_Momma said...

and another

Alex Floyd said...

How would the government gain power? How does this fall into the 'evil liberal agenda'? I read a lot. I never said your daughter didn't, and I am a bit digusted by you that you are so quick to speak about such things. I read the major outlets and minor ones, which I sometimes find have the better news. I read almost all the time, maybe even more than your daughter. And the CDC website only has so much to offer. Living in Atlanta has certain advantages. I'm not going to debate any of these things though because I don't care. Swine flu is a pandemic. In this case, the government does have the final say in what a pandemic is. I am referring to the WHO and CDC definition of a pandemic.

Liberty said...

Alex, the government HAS power. They own us, and we let them. And your intimation in your above comment was that yes, I do not read. I read anything I can get my hands on, from the NYTimes to the smallest blog, if I happen upon it. That's how I found Christopher's blog. That's how I find out a lot.

I read a lot too. Rarely will you find me without a book. And I'm not talking about Twilight. My current reading list is The World Is Flat by Thomas Friedman, The Blood Road by John Prados, Piety and Politics by Rev. Barry Lynn, and The Prince of Marshes by Rory Stewart. I plan to start the Communist Manifesto soon, and I am in the process (very slow process...) of reading Democracy In America by Alexis de Tocqueville.

And y'know, when the CDC gives a press release, it goes all over the nation. Instantly. Ain't technology great? Unless you are some sort of official in the CDC pantheon, you can't get insider information before the press (and subsequently the 'net) do.

With all that said- I don't think the WHO and CDC are justified in calling this a 'pandemic.' The last pandemic was in 1918. I presented the statistics for this above. The last before that was the Black Death. Needless to say, the current flu DOES NOT come even CLOSE to those things. At all. I refuse to think that our current 'crisis' even comes close to a pandemic. At all. I don't care what some government bureaucrat says.

Joyful_Momma said...

How many books have you read in the last year Alex?

Liberty has read upwards of 150, a large portion of those non-fiction. Liberty spends at least 10 hours a day reading, and she is a fast reader.

I suppose this is just the "MamaBear" coming out but I found your earlier post derogatory. You accused Liberty of being ignorant and uninformed, I assure you she is neither!! You must remember that she is not yet 15 and for her age, even for most adults, she is very well read and informed.

Just because you live in Atlanta does not mean you are getting better or more up to date information. News travels fast, very fast, these days. So get off your high horse!

Oh and you are also wrong about another thing...Liberty does not get much of her information from me, it is actually the other way 'round! :D

Liberty said...

From MedicineNet.com, a pandemic is defined as- "Pandemic: An epidemic (a sudden outbreak) that becomes very widespread and affects a whole region, a continent, or the world.

By contrast:

•An epidemic affects more than the expected number of cases of disease occurring in a community or region during a given period of time. A sudden severe outbreak within a region or a group as, for example, AIDS in Africa or AIDS in intravenous drug users.
•An endemic is present in a community at all times but in low frequency. An endemic is continuous as in the case of malaria in some areas of the world or as with illicit drugs in some neighborhoods.

The word "pandemic" comes from the Greek "pan-", "all" + "demos", "people or population" = "pandemos" = "all the people." A pandemic affects all (nearly all) of the people. By contrast, "epi-" means "upon." An epidemic is visited upon the people. And "en-" means "in." An endemic is in the people."


Kendra Logan said...

This is kind of a long comment, so if you don't want to read it all, I put my "short version" at the end, lol!

Can I just say something?

This debate is not about how many books someone has read over the last year. That's honestly not even relevant. Here's where I stand:

I don't care if you vaccinate your kids or not. I don't necessarily think the government should make a law saying that you have to, but I understand where you are coming from.

Some research says that vaccines are harmful, but other sources say they are MOST CERTAINLY NOT. (Believe me, I did a three-month research paper on it.)

I don't think the government is out to get us in this area or our kids.

The word "pandemic" deals not with how many people are affected, but how widespread the infection is, okay? The common cold is a pandemic. It affects people all over the world.

You're right. "Pan" means all and "Demos" means people. In this case, it doesn't mean "people" as in "persons", but "people" as in nation, body of persons, population. "Pandemic". It is effective in all populations.

Long story short:
1. I don't necessarily think the government should make vaccines mandatory.
2. I don't think the government is out to get us in this area.
3. This is not a debate about how many books you've read this year, and it's almost childish to bring that up.
4. Pandemic deals not with how many people are affected, but how wide-spread the infection is.


Kendra Logan said...

*where THEY are coming from.

Liberty said...

You're right, Kendra, it is immature to argue that. I realize that. I have a bit of a temper, and sometimes... >.<


I do not think the government is 'out to get us' either. (In some areas maybe, or our rights at least, but not out to get us specifically) I just think that they are violating my rights and not doing their homework.

This is an excellent break-down of exactly what we're pumping into our bodies when we get vaccines. Please do actually read it- it's quite...scary and eye opening, once we find out what we're putting in there. I don't see how you can look at what they put in there and still think it's OK for you!

Yes, a pandemic is how widespread it is. BUT, I don't think it's all that serious when we look at how MANY it has effected. Yes, it has spread. But so has the cold, and we don't freak about that. Everybody in the world gets warts, but you don't see mass hysteria in the streets.

Liberty said...

Here is another link about the ingredients in vaccinations.

Kendra Logan said...

I'm sorry if I jumped on you about that. *That* was immature of me, too.

I did read the links, and I think I might have read them before for my reserach paper. I know that those things aren't chemicals we would normally think of to put into our bodies, and I know they might not be the healthiest things to ingest. Still, my theory is, I'm still alive. I know that's really bad reasoning, but it's how I think in this area. This is one area that I'm not particularly enthusiastic about.

I have not researched vaccines alone, but along with autism research, so my research was tied mostly to the levels of thimerosal mercury in vaccines. I'm sure you know more about the other chemicals than I do.

Liberty said...

I read a bit on those sites I posted- until I got sick at the thought. XD I got some of those vaccines recently for my missions trip to Africa, so I'm a bit paranoid, LOL